Grizzly Shooter

On 6/23/2022 at 12:12 PM, de50ae said:

 

Still waiting for my decapping unit...

So I haven't tried the PPU cases yet

 

Read a few weeks ago that the Automag pistol is in production again and Starline is making the brass for it.

So that could be a good source for cases.

 

Can the .44 Automag case be used for 357/45 GWM without reaming?

Because I don't have the necessary vice and machine to ream the cases.
I am happy to do a trial with the .44 AMP cases but I am located in Germany and as I understand you are located in the US I guess it will be not possible to get the brass to me.

PM me the address and i will see if its possible. From what i see its all on you to post correct info. even though 45 is the man, we still have more research. so what I've Learned  45 Redding is the best one to get custom dies from FYI!

On 5/2/2022 at 2:53 PM, Grizzly45 said:

Hi, this isn't over. Today's test shooting was a bad show
I'll get back to that, let me answer your questions first.

This problem of buckled cases did not occur with the .308 cases, since there I had problems with getting ENOUGH hold on the bullets.

The Kurtz is grabbing on for dear life, which is a good thing.

When I seat a flat base bullet, at a point in the seater die when the case neck is not fully supported, the bullets tend to kink.

I stopped half way on one of them, and it looked like a tongue in cheek thing. I pressed home and crimped, but it won't chamber.

So - the rifle style expander button is a must. Considering adding a bit of trumpet, too

 

Attached is a photo of:

A 308 win cartridge for reference.

A Kurtz that won't chamber

A Kurtz that "plonks" into the chamber

A Kurtz that had a bad time at the feed ramp

A Kurtz that the extractor caught

A fired Kurtz.

 

Edit: I just spotted something in my own picture. The Fired & formed cases are way different than the fired cases.

Look at the shoulder, the shoulder angle & the length of the neck. F**ck. I knew those CH4D dies were iffy. F**k

 

Then about today..

 

I had loaded 40 cartridges with a moderate load, 8,6 gr N340, for a factor of about 200-210 with a 170gr bullet, to be easy on my hands & shoulders.

This was too little oomph against the 27lbs recoil spring, and several cases were caught on the extractor and followed the slide back to smack into the chamber wall. It seemed like the extractor was holding a death grip on the case, and the ejection didn't work.

I switched to a weaker spring, this let the cases eject fine, but this spring didn't have enough power to force the cartidges up the feed ramp.
The taper of the 357/45 is probably larger than the .45 win mag, and they tend to go nose first into the frame ramp and get stuck unless there's a huge force driving them.
 

So:

Feed ramp not optimal

Need lots of bang to have the extractor lose its death grip on the case and let the ejector do its work.

 

Have no idea why a THINNER rim should produce that death grip. Isn't smaller diameter, too?

I don't get it. The Kurtz is actually closer to the .45 Win Mag (that I assume the GWM is built from) than the .308 is.

 

I'll need a break from this project for a while, while I ponder..

from what i see brother, is me and your are screwed . we will never truly achieve  accurate groups with out rbs or custom dies....really sucks! Thoses pics shows it all! F**K

On 5/2/2022 at 3:58 PM, de50ae said:

Hmmmm that doesn't sound so good....

In about 2 weeks I should have the PPU cases.

Will see if I'll have the same troubles...

you might be on to something there. every and i mean every ppu brass I've ever resized takes more pressure and more lube to resize this might be a interesting brass to experiment with. because i think most of what we are at war with is the brand of the brass..... they are  all different to some degree!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Infact de50ae i will send you some 44 auto mag brass to you so we can experience more on this 44 auto mag conclusion. Since you have me and Grizzly45 so jealous of your rcbs dies ya DAWG!!! but i would order that rimmer i found on ebay too just so it will be more interesting. .3550" 6-Flute Carbide Straight Flute Reamer MF02031115 | eBay its really a cheap price for a nice reamer. In other words if you buy the reamer i will send you some free brass to get this out of the equation. it would be nice of you. but i will send brass regardless if you do or don't . Because you have the correct dies and me and 45 is so curious.. LOL!!! I think the ball is in your court to this post because you have the correct dies. with 45 and me we have over expanding brass in a completely different cal. the 357amp. it may be the reason also for thin neck walls and low bullet tension over expanding brass..(the brass over expands causing thinner necks is what I'm thinking it makes a lot of sense!!). Agree?

Hey guys, I've been so busy, really with no time to experiment yet. i did order the trim die and form die. which is really a 357 amp reformer. great i bought crap dies. Its all that's available, so kind of stuck like a chuck. Speaking of chucks i believe the reason the extractor is holding so hard is the fact that the dia. and the thickness of the rim is causing the extractor to dive deeper than normal. Its crabbing to much of the shoulder of the rim i think the only cure would be to get a grizzly 44 mag extractor. or a gunsmith taking down the extractor to not crab so much of the rim.(the shoulder of the ch4d dies looks like a weatherby shoulder and the correct is a 30/30 shoulder two different animals). It could be also that the crappy ch4d dies that are amp dies is over expanding the brass to much to a 357/45gwm chamber causing a hard release of the brass not sure!! (but when my 50 bmg brass has a pinch in the shoulder i have to use a rod to get it out the chamber) They say, the 44 is the original extractor that can be cut into any caliber. I've read so much on this caliber, from what i been told/reading that the magic brass is the 44 auto mag/rem 308 brass. it seems the rem brass will have more chamber vol. than other 308's.. I'm not sure, i will be doing some experiments in the near future. de50ae what a brilliant ideal..:) Also star line has 44 auto mag in stock. i got 500 to try out star line makes some really Awesome brass. also i see they have 9mm mag brass in stock. so i was bidding on a Lar Grizzly 9mm mag kit a little while ago on Gun broker. i keep bidding and bidding and this guy had bottomless pockets. i shot Jefferey a link to it. He called me and said, you know who out bidded you right? i said no, he said that was Grizzly45 that just beat ya ass up BOY LMAO!!  I did want it to brother, so how do you like it? You a DAWG!!!  I got bitten by a PIT BULL!   STOPTHE BLEEDING Medic!!

P.S. i ordered the wrong reamer twice for dia. reason, i finally found the correct one for the 357amp ream die from ch4d. i was going to go your way with the forster setup. but i think drilling down will be so much easier than sideways. not to mention the trim die with a file so much easier. here is what i found.  .3550" 6-Flute Carbide Straight Flute Reamer MF02031115 | eBay  (the ch4d dies cost 67$ a piece the ream die is more i think? they sell you the incorrect reamer for more money wtfh .358 reamer.),. also, if your Forster has a worn shaft it might explain the reason of no bullet hold/thin neck walls on 44 auto mag. i will find out soon just my 2 cents. 

6 hours ago, Grizzly45 said:

Trim & reamer is good. As said, .355 works OK for me, depends a bit on which cases I use as donor. The RCBS were 356. 351 is way off, as is .357/8.

 

Be careful about mails from "Dave" at CH4d - just got a spam/phish from someone who has broken into their mailbox, with a link to a veeery iffy download. Take care - use the phone to confirm before clicking.

Thanks for the heads up. So one last question before i get brass, im thinking buying once fired cases from gunbroker, Commerial (range brass). Or should i buy new brass? So in your experience with brand 308 brass is there one that is more favorable, I know in pistol brass that Fed is more stronger and is where Win, Rem, and speer is more of a weaker brass. I also know that .556/223 is a completely different animal when compared to inner thickness  of the brass leaving less compacity in volume in the chamber.  Its more than likely thicker on the 7.62 NATO brass also. Any experience's with those?

I will post my finding at a later date on more data experience's when i get setup.. Here is my fav. bullet to play with a 357 mag. Now will be 357/45 GWM

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018301458?pid=392055

Also, they have 38 specials that don't have a cannelure groove. (Why in the World they wouldn't have a cannelure groove is beyond me?). Like you stated that its a hard trip up that ramp to make the chamber i would imagine.  I might play around on creating a crimp groove. I'm a dental Tech so i have three nice lathes. They did have 90/100 grain when in stock, they come and go very fast. Lehigh is the best bullet this old man has ever seen, a true smart bullet. They do have 120 with no cannelure  groove, They do state not recommended for the 357 Mag not really sure why they don't have a Extreme Defense round for the 357 Mag. because even the 140 is only mod. with a round 20-30 degree cut with no crimp groove it feeds fine in my 357 Mag grizzly. Like you where saying maybe getting a .358 rifle neck die might be the best option. I lied i got alot of questions?  Who knows my dies might be ok. (yeah right.)

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1020626726?pid=683900

I've been casting bullets as long as reloading and have a few molds to try out, very rare old molds also. i use hi-tek coating on everything now. I have a lot of linotype/wheel weights/lead/solder/tin to make some really hard cast rounds. What a improvement instead of nasty wax lubes. I've had that stuff up to 2200fps with no leading of the barrel. Best thing since Women lolz. (some people would disagree!!).  If you cast bullets i already know the best mold will be this mold. They have the 2 cavity also. Thats what i have.

Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold 358-150-1R 38 Special 357 Mag 38 Colt New (midwayusa.com)

I'm still going to take the 357/45 GWM barrel and have it throated and polished. 

So i figured you would jump on that other set of dies from CH4D at those prices?

Speaking about Lehigh i got a 9mm 68GR. smoking 1700fps, 90 Gr. doing 1475fps/1525fps out of a S&W M&P. (those 68Gr. are nick named little demons for a reason,). They have a load chart on Lehighs website. Truck gun. FYI. Of course with adjustable sites its all tricked like Jerry's comp. weapon really impressive for a 9mm. Got a 40S&W 135Gr. Holser HP doing 1575fps with longshot. STI 2011. 5 inch. ill post some eye candy later if interested. Just food for thought.

 https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018300681?pid=905559

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018300681?pid=905559

Lehigh videos.

I must agree with you ch4g has got to be lost in space to say .351 when we all know it's ..356. glad I ordered a ..355 like you said. Any more data would be appreciated.

So I finally got to order the dies from Ch4D. I had to order two sets of dies just like Jeffrey had in the video. They have the trim reamer die set also. After talking to them awhile they said the reamer suppose to be a .351. I asked them to make sure because the two guys I know making this round got a .357-.359 from your die sets. I more than likely will get the .359 like you guys did . Here is some more load data got from Jeffrey.

So it seems ch4d is so busy they don't answer there phone and there email is turned off. Jezz, hire some more people or something. . I think i might go with this company, Custom Reloading Dies - Whidden Gunworks But im first going to call Redding first i think they are the best. i order the .355 forster last night. Do you use it with a drill are the brass trimmer?

To seat the bullet im just going to use a press with a block of wood. I have been reloading for about 32 years so im pretty good. I hope i can get some brass from Jefferey that guy in the video, he seems like a great person. He also has the 9mm Mag for the grizzly, now that would be fun. He said he cant find mags for it. Any thoughts on that or ideals on getting such a thing. I would think you could mod. a 357 mag, like they do with the 45wm with a block in the back to do the 45acp. He said he payed 1000$ for the barrel, ive never seen a barrel or nothing for the 9mm mag. Ive had one of my grizzly since i was 23 now im 53 yikes...Time flys..

Thanks

Tim

P.S. Can you share some of that 357 amp data for reloading? So what did you use to get that 110 up with that much heat? (H110) also that 170 gr? Thats smoking down the range brother! i I had to have my 357 mag barrel throated by Clarks Custom Guns im a local to them boys alone with Jerry Miculek im always going out there to hang out with them Boyz. I tell you one thing Jerry is one bad M.F.... Im hoping he will do some videos on my Grizzlys..=) BTW thats two Americans down since you wrote this post in English, Only one more to go..LMAO!

2 hours ago, Grizzly45 said:

A lot to unravel here
 

First of all - the guy on youtube is using the CH4D dies, plus a set of RCBS forming dies that haven't been manufactured since the 80'ies.

That makes me about 100% sure that he bought the barrel & dies in the 80'ies, and forgot them for 40 years. In the video he's simply parroting the article above, without attribution, though with some screenshots

 

The fact that his dies were too long, too ,makes me believe that CH4D never got these dies right. I just took a belt sander to the bottom of mine in small steps until a formed case "plunked" nice into the chamber.

 

I can't find the case expander die, so apparently I dropped that early on for some reason. I'm using a hack with a Lee universal charger die & a neck expander from a .357 Mag set.

 

The seater has a seater stem that's about 20mm (4/5th of an inch ish) too long. I've chopped it off, working on making a suitable dimple to push in the bullets. In the mean time, I'm simply using a .45 ACP seating die.

 

The crimper is OK, it could touch more of the neck than just the mouth, but it's OK.

 

So - CH4D - OKish, needs a bit of work If they still have them, you can hack it, too. 

 

Note that the guy on youtube stops a few steps short of seating & crimping, probably because he discovered that the .355 bullets dropped clear into the cases. I'm using .357 FMJ's in mine, the bore is .3575.

 

You can make a chamber cast, and I can send you a few formed & sized cases. Fill them 70% with TrailBoss, use a mallet to push some .357's into the case, feed them manually (to avoid unseating the bullets on the feed ramp), and presto - you have 3 fired cases.

 

When I went looking for custom dies, they mostly said "come back in a few years, we're busy". Might have changed?
 

 

He said those where the only dies he had for them. I called and talked to him about it. He said they are still on the shelf there at CH4D. I guess it will be my only option so thanks for all the input. Give him a call his number is listed in the replys on one of the replies. I thank both of you for the insight on getting something that will work for now much appreciated. Do go with a ..355 reamer?

Again thanks for both of you guys knowledge on this round I've never had a wild cat before .

Ps if I need those cases from you I'll be sending you a money order to cover the cost.

My problem is that I have zero dies to even make a fire formed brass to order custom dies. Which company would you trust to make the custom dies here in America? I'm thinking I should left that 357/45 gwm on the counter..I have two other grizzly one in 357 mag. Which is my favorite of the three. So I will need fire formed brass to have custom dies made?  UPDATE: He  stated that he had to take 40-42 thousands of the bottom of the sizing die to make the shoulder go back to where it should be to make it right with the ch4d dies, hope that helps I just got off the phone with him he also says that it came with the wrong reamer it needs to .355 reamer. . https://youtu.be/ZO_Z4VaE8nY

Hi I also have a few grizzlys and just lucked up on a 357/45 gwm. I see that ch 4d offers dies and forming dies. I also see you say they don't work very well. I wish i could find the original dies. It's a shame.  I also see on YouTube about sizing the brass and reloading a bullet 357/45 gwm with the ch 4d dies. Thanks for the input Tim