Video av en Sør-Afrikaner på jakt i Norge

[Rino Hals]

Min gode venn Richard Lemmer er på besøk hos meg i to uker for å jakte rein og andre spennende arter.

 

Klikk her for VIDEO

 

Richard Lemmer

 

 

Det har i det siste vært en del tråder om trofejakt i afrika, og det har til tider vært stilt spørsmål ved enkelte ting ang jaken der nede.

 

Hvis noen har spørsmål om jakt i afrika, og da særlig jakt i Tanzania Zimbabwe og Sør-Afrika, kan dere stille spørsmål her direkte til Richard, og han vil svare dere når vi er hjemme, eller har tilgang til pc.

Her har dere en utmerket mulighet til å få svar av en som kjenner til dette bedre enn noen av oss her inne.

 

Skriver dere på engelsk kan han skrive svaret selv, eller jeg vil oversette så godt jeg klarer.

 

Vi vil stort sett befinne oss i buskerud og vil sikkert ha tid til overs i mellom jaktene.

Hvis noen ønsker det kan vi sikkert møtes for en uformell prat, og dere har mulighet til å hilse på en PH med større og bredere erfaring i jakt på plainsgame og dangerous game enn de aller fleste. Ta kontakt på tlf, eller send en PM

Edited September 21, 2009 by Guest

[Rino Hals]

Da har Richard vært på besøk ei uke og vi har fått med oss en del jakt...

 

Jakten startet med jakt på villrein og richard var heldig ganske tidlig... Noen har flaks og slipper å fly rundt i fjellet i dagevis for å finne en bukk som er skytbar... Skulle ønske det var meg...

 

Richard Lemmer med villrein.. Pent skutt med en Blaser K95 i 7X65R.

 

To gode venner. (og begge gruet seg til å bære den tunge bukken den lange tunge veien ned av fjellet.

 

 

Vi har også hatt tid til en tur på vestlandet der Richard felte denne bukken i de siste minuttene med skytelys i går kveld..

 

Ikke noe stort trofe, men en flott opplevelse og ei fin jakt som har gitt flotte minner...

 

Ellers vil jeg si at jeg er forundret av at ingen griper muligheten til å få svar på eventuelle spørsmål fra Richard...

[Mikkel]

Fra Sør-Afrika til Norge for å jakte. Blir vel nesten som å dra fra Lofoten til Oslofjorden for å fiske torsk...

[Flashman]

Torsk er torsk, men jeg kan levende forstille meg at både hjortejakt og reinsjakt for en sydafrikanere fremstår som minst like eksotisk som jaktopplevelser i Syd Afrika fremstår for nordmenn....

[vingemutteren]

Jeg har ett spørsmål.

 

Vi får jo hele tiden høre hva normenn mener er forskjellene om jakt her hjemme på berget, og i Afrika. Og for engangs skyld har vi jo her muligheten til å snu på flisa.

 

Så: Hva synes Richard er hoved forskjellen mellom jakt i Afrika, og her i Norge?

[M67]

I did not see this until now. I do have some questions

 

Richard,

now you have been hunting wild reindeer and red deer, at least - If you are still here Rino will probably take you grouse hunting?

How do you compare norwegian hunting to South African? What is different and what is similar? Are there things that are more difficult og more easy one or the other place?

What about the ways of hunting, i assume you hunted reindeer by trekking into the mountains, what do you think of this form of hunting?

Do you feel norwegian hunters have different standards than SA hunters, (examle, in the USA use of dogs on deer species is highly frowned upon, while here it is the standard) Are there similar differences between Norway an SA?

Is norwegian hunting more "sport", or more difficult than african hunting? Do animals behave differently?

 

Bowhunting is widespread i SA (as in most of the world?) but in Norway it is prohibited. What do you think about bowhunting? From an ethical standpoint, as to humane killing, but also the effectivity? Personally i feel norwegian game would be very hard to bowhunt (certainly reindeer), what do you feel about this?

 

I hope you are enjoying your stay (i see you keep getting animals down..), that you get a good impression of our country and that the weather is not too foul.

 

mvh

K

[Rino Hals]

Hallo my fellow hunters. Thank you for the question, its always fun to talk about hunting to other hunters. I am realy enjoying my visit and the hunting in your beautifull country!The main differences are obviously the game, terrain vegetation ,manner of hunting, so everything is different, but also very similar. Its all the differences that makes a new experience exciting.

To answer some of your questions more specifically. I found it very challenging to walk into the mountains with a backpack and hunt reindeer and then to pack the animal out after shooting and cutting it up.Thats hard work in anybodys language! It makes you appreciate the trophy more! Something that comes too easy isn’t worth as much experience wize. We don’t do that kind of hunting where I am from. There are some mountains in Namibia which are only possible to hunt in such a way. You see all the land in South Africa where hunting occurs are private land and the owners have made it accessible to 4x4 vechiles, so we use them for transport in and out and to cover more terrain to search for game. From the Proffesional Hunting side I also employ a team of trackers ,skinners sometimes a driver and camp staff to make the Safari run smooth, after all clients pay for this service, they don’t come to suffer. When we hunt ourselves we have to do everything ourselves. Sometimes we also cut up the animals and carry them a few kilometers to the vechile. Hunting is big business in Africa so we develop the infrastructure to cope with it.

To answer your questions about bowhunting, in South Africa the nature conservation authorities did some tests to determine the killing power of bows of different poundage and made it legal to hunt with bows, you need to use a certain poundage for certain size game. For instance 55pounds for kudu size animals and greater than 80lbs for dangerous game. Crossbows are not legal to hunt with because the arrows are too light and don’t kill as well. Game farms that cater for bow hunting set up blinds and hides at water and salt licks and then hunters ambush them there. I don’t have much respect for this form of hunting because its more shooting, and ive seen too many animals wounded that have to be followed up and killed with a rifle. Bowhunting takes a lot of practice, everyday in fact and most people don’t do it. I only have respect for bowhunters who practice their shooting and can walk and stalk game on foot and make clean kills.

Hunting with dogs is only legal for birds or following up wounded game. Otherwise you need a special permit. This form of hunting is still popular among the English settlers in the eastern cape for bushbuck and bushpig and also predator control like leopard jackal and lynx. I think hunting ethics are both a legal and moral and personal thing, meaning its different for different people. In South Africa its illegal to hunt within 200m of a vechile or water and half an hour before sunrise and half hour after sunset. These things can only be done by getting special permits.

I hope that explains a few things, please ask if you have more questions. Im going hunting grouse and tiur with Rino (xo) and bjorn. Im looking forward to it, birdhunting is one of my favourites!

Best regards

Richard Lemmer

[M67]

Always very interesting to hear the views of someone from a different background, and even more so from a professional. I do hope your grouse and tiur (capercaille in english?)

goes well. the tiur can be an elusive fellow.

 

I have not hunted tiur this early in the fall, except for chance encounters heading into grouse terrain. It is perhaps because one often hunts grouse and ducks that require less effort first? Where i come from it is mainly hunted in winter. As boys, we would hunt them in december, with rifles.

You have seen the mountain "plains" and the steep wet slopes of deer country, the tiur hunt most probably will offer yet another landscape. Both that and grouse hunting is a walking game for sure.

 

are not legal to hunt with because the arrows are too light and don’t kill as well. Game farms that cater for bow hunting set up blinds and hides at water and salt licks and then hunters ambush them there. I don’t have much respect for this form of hunting because its more shooting, and ive seen too many animals wounded that have to be followed up and killed with a rifle.

Very interesting to hear a PH with such a view on the blind hunting. Personally i could never really see the point of such hunting (at least not enough to pay for it, i probably would have tried was it on my own land or something) , but i do understand people going there to try other ways of hunting and to pursue what they dream of.

EDIT(inserted new question): Do yuo feel the high number of wounded animals is due to the lack of "killing power" or penetration issues with arrows, or is it simply to poor shooting in not good enough situations for shooting?

The crossbow observation is equally interesting, as quite a few people are blinded by the high poundage of crossbows. Anyway, ownership of crossbows are "de facto" prohibited in Norway, although the ban has exceptions and is not enforced.

 

Bowhunting takes a lot of practice, everyday in fact and most people don’t do it. .

This is extremely true, even so, the serious ones do, but some dont. The compound bow is good at making people think they can shoot a bow, and indeed some leave it at that (this is probably more common among US hunters than norwegian, i hope).

Prior to my (still few) hunts i have practiced several times a day for at least 2-3 months. It helps... However, a lot of the edge thus gained goes away quickly if one does not practice.

Still i feel that the generally accepted shooting distances today may be on the far side - they are set by experienced hunters/good shots.

I do feel the ethics among the traditional bowhunters are somewhat more strict, than among a lot of compound hunters, when it comes to shooting distances, not taking less than perfect shots etc. Do you have the same experience?

 

I only have respect for bowhunters who practice their shooting and can walk and stalk game on foot and make clean kills

Shooting from a blind is still shooting at animals, i let down on a black bear @some 6m this spring because i was shaking so bad (in a treestand), IMO in plainsight and within reach of the bruin, stand hunting is not purely shooting? @<10m just about any animal can hear you swallow, and what is really the difference between stalking a pig on foot and then ambush it from behind a bush, and just ambush it from inside a blind? Obviously the former is much more fun and rewarding to the hunter(it might even get you a tick and thorn to remember), but the pig is still shot, unsuspecting.

This kind of discussion quickly brings up why we hunt, and my own argumentation seems to suggest it is for the thrill of it - i like that. Even so i belong to the camp that needs to use the animal (to something) to defend killing it.

How are your, or the african view on this?

 

Bowhunting is currently not allowed. Do you think it should be allowed? What kind of restrictions should be used? Do you think compulsory education or theorethical and shooting proficiency tests matter? Differences for small game/large game?

 

 

I think hunting ethics are both a legal and moral and personal thing, meaning its different for different people

I could not agree more. Some of the most fierce debates on this forum has been over hunting ethics and people failing to understand that it is a personal thing. Of course it is also influenced by your environment, hunting buddies and general consensus, though still personal.

One such debate has been over shooting distances. A number of "shooters", with a practice level approaching that you recommend for bowhunters are clashing with the general crowd of "hunters" claiming basically anything over 200m should not be attempted regardless. I feel they do not take into account what determinaton and practice can do to your skills, and also do not appriciate that different people stand on, at least slightly, different ethical ground. The debacle is partly opposite to bowhunting, because in riflehunting, the consensus (in Norway) is set by large bulk of hunters that have no interest in shooting, and do not practice at all, unless forced by compulsory practice shots.

 

One thing i forgot in the forst post, the competence level of hunters that come to hunt in Africa?

Can you say something about that? Field skills, stalking skills, shooting, gun safety? What would you improve on your clients if you could choose?

What guns do they come with, and your opinion on those?

 

Best

 

K

[Gullars]

Goeie middag Richard!

 

Hoe gaan dit?

 

My question is simple! How did you enjoy the terrain, hunting deer in the western part of Norway? (thats where I`m from) Did you have to climb the hillsides there as well?

[Rino Hals]

M67...

 

Thanks for the interest and response. The birdhunting was interesting, though unsuccesfull,. We saw a few but they kept on flushing too far ahead. It seems that the birds didn’t breed well this season so their numbers are down. The terrain in the hills above Eggedal are beautifull and I enjoyed just being there.

I put down the wound to bad shooting, range estimation, buck jumping the string and such. There is nothing wrong with the killing power of bows when the right equipment is being used. I share your views about the compound versus traditional bowhunters, the later are usually more experienced anyway. The same views as to why we hunt also.

Its not for me to say if or even try to suggest how bowhunting should be allowed in Norway, but from my limited experience your ways of hunting and terrain seem against it.

Shooting distances is in my opinion a personal limitation and should not be limited by legislation, how can it?

I want to complement the Norwegian clients Ive had. Their shooting and stalking skills as well as gun handling have been much better than other nationalities I don’t care to mention. I think its because you guys really do move through the terrain. The things that could be improved by most clients are practical shooting skills at various distances from field positions. Almost nobody practices this enough. General fitness as in walking over rough terrain carrying a rifle can always be improved. Ive never had a client with a inferior gun, Its always a good excuse to buy a new one for Africa and there is nothing wrong with that, but I sometimes think they might have shot better with that old Sako 30-06. they left at home in favour of the new Magnum that makes them flinch.

[Lawman]

Game farms that cater for bow hunting set up blinds and hides at water ...

In South Africa its illegal to hunt within 200m of a vechile or water and half an hour before sunrise and half hour after sunset.

 

Hi Richard,

 

1) If it is illegal to hunt 200 m within water, is it not legal to hunt near a waterhole then? What about the blinds near water(holes)?

 

2) Why are international hunters charged twice or triple (thropy fees) if you compare to local/domestic hunters?

[Rino Hals]

Game farms that cater for bow hunting set up blinds and hides at water ...

In South Africa its illegal to hunt within 200m of a vechile or water and half an hour before sunrise and half hour after sunset.

 

Hi Richard,

 

1) If it is illegal to hunt 200 m within water, is it not legal to hunt near a waterhole then? What about the blinds near water(holes)?

 

2) Why are international hunters charged twice or triple (thropy fees) if you compare to local/domestic hunters?

 

Yes in most of the provinces you cannot hunt near a waterhole if youre a local. Game farms get permits that prove they are fully enclosed and the game are mostly stocked by them. Then they are exempt from most hunting legislation and can hunt any way they like. This is desirable especially for foreigner who dont have a lot of time and have big expetations for trophies.

 

The setup and infrastructure you need for foreign hunters are more and expensive compared to locals. Trophy hunting takes more time and work than meat hunting, only about 5% of the game population are trophies. Like everything people are in it to make money or a living and prices are set at what the market can bear.

 

To answer a previous question about deer hunting on the west coast. Yes you have steep mountains which I climbed and its cold and wet and slippery, very chalenging terrain!

[Lawman]

Thank you.

 

Would you recommend a PH-course for keen Norwegian hunter who wants the most out of Africa-hunts, such as http://www.huntacademy.co.za/flash.html

 

If so, what school(s) would you recommend?

[Shadob]

Er det blitt åpning for PH-utdannelse for nordmenn som bor i Norge igjen ?

 

Og hva skal man isåfall bruke denne til?

Kun for å jakte for seg selv - for slippe å betale for en PH?

 

Det kan man gjøre litt uoffisielt - hvis man blir "kjent" som en habil person /jeger når man har vært hos samme outfitter i flere år. Da vil denne stole på deg. Å flakke fra sted til sted (les: kun se hva man sparer av kroner og øre ) - vil ikke tilsi at man oppnår denne fortroligheten.

 

Èn ting er å finne dyr (det er jo lett), andre ting som å ha kontakter er jo også viktig for å kunne være PH, lokale bestemmelser/ting/kunnskap om butikker, hva gjør man om det skjærer seg med våpentransporten, biluhell, og jeg gidder ikke å nevne alle de andre tusen tingene

Og det tar faktisk litt tid å få denne erfaringen

 

Lykke til med PH-utdannelsen!

Edited September 16, 2009 by Guest

[Gullars]

Richard is no boer No afrikaans replay back!

[tikkat3]

Hi Richard.

A hot issue on this forum are whether safaris in what you call "game farms" are real hunting or not, compeard to the hunting you have taken part of i Norway these last days. As I understand, the game farms inkreese the "live stock" or animal population by feeding the animals in drye seesons, buing ekstra live stock from other farms, and replacing those who are taken out. There are also rumers of medication of the animals. As I understand, the game farms are usually fenced in.

 

There are a lot of people wondering how it is possibel for a oversizesed, filty ritch, middelaged Norwegian to collect a HUGE ammount of trofees on just ONE week in Afrika, often on his first time in the contry. On the other side, the african hunter call the sceptics cheep, envy, communist basterds

 

What are your thoughts about Norwegian hunting compered to African hunting according to the tings above?

 

One interesting cuestion is: Why are safaries in south Africa allways extreamly succesfull?

[STUBBERUD]

Hello tikkat3

 

Check out this link. A lot about wildlife ranching.

 

http://www.wildliferanching.com/exclusi ... game/sable

 

Nils-Ole

[STUBBERUD]

Thank you.

 

Would you recommend a PH-course for keen Norwegian hunter who wants the most out of Africa-hunts, such as http://www.huntacademy.co.za/flash.html

 

If so, what school(s) would you recommend?

 

Good luck with you PH-Course Lawman

 

Nils-Ole

[Jonah-Hex]

Hey Richard

 

Congratulation with two fine tropes.

 

Most people her focus on hunting, but I would like to ask you a question about the gun laws in RSA.

 

Since I'm more interested in sports shooting, what are the rules for getting guns for pistol, IPSC shooting (like Semi auto shotguns and rifles) and like that?

 

Roomers on the Internet, are saying that it is getting harder, legally to bye/own guns in RSA, is this true?

If you have a link to the laws in RSA, it would be very good.

 

If you go on a hunting trip to RSA, can you bring a handgun (big revolver?) for defence agenst angry animals? (Or is this just a stupid question?

Is handgun hunting legal?

 

Enjoy your stay in Norway.

[Rino Hals]

edit dobbelpostet

Edited September 21, 2009 by Guest

[Rino Hals]

Hey Richard

 

Congratulation with two fine tropes.

 

Most people her focus on hunting, but I would like to ask you a question about the gun laws in RSA.

 

Since I'm more interested in sports shooting, what are the rules for getting guns for pistol, IPSC shooting (like Semi auto shotguns and rifles) and like that?

 

Roomers on the Internet, are saying that it is getting harder, legally to bye/own guns in RSA, is this true?

If you have a link to the laws in RSA, it would be very good.

 

If you go on a hunting trip to RSA, can you bring a handgun (big revolver?) for defence agenst angry animals? (Or is this just a stupid question?

Is handgun hunting legal?

 

Enjoy your stay in Norway.

 

 

If you have the time,money and inclination to do a P:H:course in R.s.a., it would be a very rewarding experience for you, it will show you how it all works.Then you will need some experience before you can do the work. Some local hunters in s.a. do it just to learn more about hunting. Having done my license in 1991 Im too out of touch with the schools to recomend one. They all have to follow the same standards so any one will do.

Gun laws are very tight in s.a.As a occasional hunter you may own 1 handgun,1 shotgun and 2 rifles thats all. You have to be a dedicated hunter by belonging to a recognised hunting organisation, be active as a hunter, show proof of this and pass examns on legislation and practical shooting. Then you may own a unlimited amount of guns, but each one has to be well motivated to the police and relicenced every ten years. The same applies for sport shooting to have those guns. Semi autos especially need good motivations and have to be relicenced every 2 years.

African hunts are succesfull because we do our best to make them so. You cant take someone paying a lot of money to a marginal hunting area, we need lots of animals, game ranches are boosted artificialy, but it doesnt mean its too easy to hunt there, that may be true if you just want to shoot meat from the truck. The animals are wild and dont want to die, so they will try to evade you. I think you have to try it before you can judge. You should also tell your P:H: what your hunting ethics are, so you dont end up driving around shooting animals from the truck, unless the ranch has clearance and youre that way inclined.

Handgun hunting is legal in S.A,so you may bring your handgun to hunt with or just play or carry it around for extra insurance. You wont need it because you will be accompanied by a proffesional and its quite a hassle to carry and safeguard.

[Sjur Dale]

Var du hjå Trygve på laurdag Rino?

[Rino Hals]

Var du hjå Trygve på laurdag Rino?

 

 

Hei på deg.

 

Ja, jeg var i Fjærland hos trygve...

 

Hmmm. Var du der?

[Rino Hals]

Tikkat3.

 

 

Like I said we strive to make hunting as succesfull as possible, because that is how we do bussines. Game farms are stocked otherwise there would only be cattle and sheep. Live animals are bought at great cost and introduced for breeding on fenced farms. Income is then derived from both trophy hunting, meat hunting live capture and culling in order to make it viable for the farmers to run game instead of livestock. We supplement feed to keep animals healthy. Drugs are used to calm animals while transporting them after live capture, otherwise they hurt themselves on the trucks.

 

You see there are no state land where you can hunt in South Africa. All hunting takes place on private land. Landowners need to make money out of their land, either from commercial farming in which case game are competition to farming or through actually farming with game. If you have an aversion to hunting within a fenced area you can always specify this to your ph. He then has to take you to a cattle farm where the game come and go and you may spend a week hunting and not see anything. This is o.k. if youre a local and are just hunting for meat at low cost. Game farms are normally quite large more than 650ha, they need to be to be viable, in such areas the game can and will still avoid you and the hunt is still challenging, you need to try it before you judge it. Even the Kruger Park is fenced and its about the size of Israel.

The point is the animal has a territory within which it lives and roams, it knows this territory like the back of its hand and how to avoid hunters. Its not going to run up to the fence and stand and wait for you to shoot it!

 

Hunting here is not that much different than over there. You have to go to a productive area, find the animal of course you have to abide by the laws of the land first, after locating the animal you have to stalk , or hunt it or ambush it like you guys do. About the only big difference is that we cannot use dogs to flush and move the game to ambush spots.

[Sjur Dale]

Ut frå det du skriv her og det Trygve fortalde meg måndag denne veka trekte eg nokre sluttningar.

Eg var ein tur oppe i skreda på laurdag ettermiddag. Ut på dagen søndag skaut eg ein bukk nær andre skreda.

Det kom fram at du hadde vore i Kjerringdalen. Stemmer?

Då har du kanskje jakta med Jan E der?

Berre litt nyskjerrig då eg kjenner Kjerringdalen godt og har jakta litt hjort med Jan.

Elles er jakt av hjort i valdet til Trygve ein utmerka stad.

[Bamrud]

Jeg fikk den glede og ære å introdusere Richard i bukkejakt på lørdag.

 

Desverre litt sent i sesongen for å lure en bukk på lokk og forvente at bukken rekognoserer sitt territorium på en morgenrunde, men vi måtte jo håpe på at det kom en skytbar bukk ved en av grompostene.

 

Richard hadde to harer og ei rådyrgeit på tidlig morrapost, og rådyrbukken uteble så klart...

Etter at Richard hadde fått igjen varmen ved bålet, slapp vi dachsen for at han skulle få høre en god rådyrlos.

Den dro jo da selvsagt i "feil" retning og utenfor hørehold, så det ble ikke store spenninga det heller..

Ska'kke være lett.

 

Det ble uansett en trivelig dag med prat om jakt, børser og kalibre. (Merkelige greier )

 

@Richard.

You didn't get your roebuck this time, but you are welcome back any time. I will save one for you too neckst time you come to Norway.

[Rino Hals]

Har nettopp fått lagt ut litt video fra villreinsjakten med Ric.

 

Videoen ligger her: http://www.weatherbyrifler.com/index.php?ind=downloads&op=section_view&idev=5

 

Filen heter Richard på reinsjakt.

 

 

Sjekk den gutten.. Måtte holde han tilbake et par ganger... Litt over gjennomsnittet ivrig?? hehe

 

Filen er ganske stor, og det tar noen min å laste men pytt. Kok en kopp kaffe imens...

[villdyret]

Takk for link til flott video Rino! Vel verdt den tiden det tok å laste ned, anbefales Ps; grattis med utrolig fin storbukk

[Rino Hals]

Beklage at jeg ikke har sett dette før villdyret. Tusen takk skal du ha. Det var pent sagt.

[benmarcos]

Wow,

 

Look at those hunts. killing spree. nice man. Sharp Shooter.

 

___________________________

 

 

When I was in the mall and having a window shopping I saw this kid outside a caffeteria and in his hands holding

 

two butterfly knives.

[TH1]

Hei

 

Hvorfor er alle slettet?

[Rino Hals]

Beklager, så ikke dette før nå.

Filmene er slettet fra serveren de lå på.

Noen av filmklippene pluss litt mer ligger her: http://ilatad.com/rino/

Det kan ta litt tid å streame filmene.

[Rino Hals]

Video fra denne jakten ligger nå på youtube.

 

 

Enjoy !